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	<title>Comments on: Should libraries have ebooks? I&#8217;m not sure they should.</title>
	<atom:link href="http://activitypress.com/2009/04/22/should-libraries-have-ebooks-im-not-sure-they-should/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://activitypress.com/2009/04/22/should-libraries-have-ebooks-im-not-sure-they-should/</link>
	<description>Martin Taylor on ebooks and media from a Downunder perspective</description>
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		<title>By: eBooks, eLearning and H1N1 &#171; The Room of Infinite Diligence</title>
		<link>http://activitypress.com/2009/04/22/should-libraries-have-ebooks-im-not-sure-they-should/comment-page-1/#comment-4993</link>
		<dc:creator>eBooks, eLearning and H1N1 &#171; The Room of Infinite Diligence</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jun 2009 06:04:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://activitypress.com/?p=449#comment-4993</guid>
		<description>[...] by Penny under Digital World, Musings No Comments&#160;  I&#8217;m sure many of you will have read this POV from the writer of eReport-Digital Publishing Downunder.  &#8220;Should libraries have e-books? [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] by Penny under Digital World, Musings No Comments&nbsp;  I&#8217;m sure many of you will have read this POV from the writer of eReport-Digital Publishing Downunder.  &#8220;Should libraries have e-books? [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Martin Taylor</title>
		<link>http://activitypress.com/2009/04/22/should-libraries-have-ebooks-im-not-sure-they-should/comment-page-1/#comment-4654</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin Taylor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Jun 2009 08:14:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://activitypress.com/?p=449#comment-4654</guid>
		<description>None of us wants to deprive disadvantaged people of the opportunity to read books. Quite the opposite. But I&#039;m arguing that, in the process of solving this problem, we shouldn&#039;t create an even bigger one by undermining the publishing industry that creates books. In a scenario such as the one you cite, I&#039;d rather see the poor subsidised than a system where everyone, rich or poor, can get free ebooks, greatly distorting the wider market. 

Chances are that the disadvantaged will also have limited, or no, access to the internet and suitable reading devices so there&#039;s a wider information access problem to solve. If you&#039;re prepared to subsidise information access for targeted groups, you can also subsidise the information itself at a commercial rate (including the cost of ebooks). I have no problem with this approach since it doesn&#039;t require that everyone, rich or poor, be provided with free, or almost free, access to books to the detriment of the publishers, authors and wider industry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>None of us wants to deprive disadvantaged people of the opportunity to read books. Quite the opposite. But I&#8217;m arguing that, in the process of solving this problem, we shouldn&#8217;t create an even bigger one by undermining the publishing industry that creates books. In a scenario such as the one you cite, I&#8217;d rather see the poor subsidised than a system where everyone, rich or poor, can get free ebooks, greatly distorting the wider market. </p>
<p>Chances are that the disadvantaged will also have limited, or no, access to the internet and suitable reading devices so there&#8217;s a wider information access problem to solve. If you&#8217;re prepared to subsidise information access for targeted groups, you can also subsidise the information itself at a commercial rate (including the cost of ebooks). I have no problem with this approach since it doesn&#8217;t require that everyone, rich or poor, be provided with free, or almost free, access to books to the detriment of the publishers, authors and wider industry.</p>
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		<title>By: Nann</title>
		<link>http://activitypress.com/2009/04/22/should-libraries-have-ebooks-im-not-sure-they-should/comment-page-1/#comment-4572</link>
		<dc:creator>Nann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 May 2009 18:54:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://activitypress.com/?p=449#comment-4572</guid>
		<description>&quot;My own feeling is that the lending library, except for specialist research and archival libraries, probably has no place in the emerging digital world.&quot;  

What an elitist assumption about the ways that people use libraries!    Why do you want to  deprive the thousands of preschoolers who are introduced to stories and the wonders to be found in books--at their libraries?   What about those people (adults and children) of modest means who love to read but could not possibly afford to purchase, or store, all the books that they want to read?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;My own feeling is that the lending library, except for specialist research and archival libraries, probably has no place in the emerging digital world.&#8221;  </p>
<p>What an elitist assumption about the ways that people use libraries!    Why do you want to  deprive the thousands of preschoolers who are introduced to stories and the wonders to be found in books&#8211;at their libraries?   What about those people (adults and children) of modest means who love to read but could not possibly afford to purchase, or store, all the books that they want to read?</p>
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		<title>By: Lesz-e e-könyv az Új-zélandi könyvtárakban? &#171; fiksz dot klog</title>
		<link>http://activitypress.com/2009/04/22/should-libraries-have-ebooks-im-not-sure-they-should/comment-page-1/#comment-4164</link>
		<dc:creator>Lesz-e e-könyv az Új-zélandi könyvtárakban? &#171; fiksz dot klog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2009 05:50:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://activitypress.com/?p=449#comment-4164</guid>
		<description>[...] eReports cikke a kommentekben is hozta ugyanazt az ellentétet, amir?l a cikk beszámol. Az Új-zélandi [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] eReports cikke a kommentekben is hozta ugyanazt az ellentétet, amir?l a cikk beszámol. Az Új-zélandi [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Martin Taylor</title>
		<link>http://activitypress.com/2009/04/22/should-libraries-have-ebooks-im-not-sure-they-should/comment-page-1/#comment-4032</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin Taylor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 May 2009 00:55:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://activitypress.com/?p=449#comment-4032</guid>
		<description>Like you, I think any viable solution will have to involve user charges. This will be unpopular with many people, both within the library system and among the general public. But the consequences of not using an effective charging model will be even worse - either free/cheap with a really lousy service that customers hate.  Or free/cheap with a terrific service that undermines commercial competition and, as a consequence, the publishers and authors who need a vibrant marketplace to sell into.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Like you, I think any viable solution will have to involve user charges. This will be unpopular with many people, both within the library system and among the general public. But the consequences of not using an effective charging model will be even worse &#8211; either free/cheap with a really lousy service that customers hate.  Or free/cheap with a terrific service that undermines commercial competition and, as a consequence, the publishers and authors who need a vibrant marketplace to sell into.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Gibson</title>
		<link>http://activitypress.com/2009/04/22/should-libraries-have-ebooks-im-not-sure-they-should/comment-page-1/#comment-4020</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Gibson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 May 2009 17:16:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://activitypress.com/?p=449#comment-4020</guid>
		<description>A provocative subject, clearly.

As an ebook supplier to libraries (and a licensee of the ebrary platform,) here&#039;s how we address the issue. (After much consultation with both publishers and libraries.)

First, we disallow access outside the IP range of the institution. This is standard practice in the online ebook world.

But we do permit our library customers to use the ebook as a source for copying or printing for interlibrary loan purposes (subject to Copyright Act restrictions.) Electronic copying doesn&#039;t work well in the ebrary system, which allows only ascii copying, so the only practical answer for the library is printing and sending through the ILL system.

Granted, it&#039;s not perfect, but both publishers and libraries seem to accept this.

And I admit that it does pose problems in the National Library setting, where everyone&#039;s a cardholder. But in Canada, I believe the National Library ILL policy is restricted to walkins, so we could sell an ebook to our National Library (Library and Archives Canada) without a worry on the ILL front.

Of course the mechanics are all in place in the ebrary system as well as other online library suppliers for micropayments. And that&#039;s the real answer. Just as libraries now charge users for photocopying, why shoudn&#039;t they charge them a per-page fee for ebook ILL? 

But until the knee-jerk reaction in library circles against charges like this disappears, ebook suppliers and publishers aren&#039;t going to offer the option.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A provocative subject, clearly.</p>
<p>As an ebook supplier to libraries (and a licensee of the ebrary platform,) here&#8217;s how we address the issue. (After much consultation with both publishers and libraries.)</p>
<p>First, we disallow access outside the IP range of the institution. This is standard practice in the online ebook world.</p>
<p>But we do permit our library customers to use the ebook as a source for copying or printing for interlibrary loan purposes (subject to Copyright Act restrictions.) Electronic copying doesn&#8217;t work well in the ebrary system, which allows only ascii copying, so the only practical answer for the library is printing and sending through the ILL system.</p>
<p>Granted, it&#8217;s not perfect, but both publishers and libraries seem to accept this.</p>
<p>And I admit that it does pose problems in the National Library setting, where everyone&#8217;s a cardholder. But in Canada, I believe the National Library ILL policy is restricted to walkins, so we could sell an ebook to our National Library (Library and Archives Canada) without a worry on the ILL front.</p>
<p>Of course the mechanics are all in place in the ebrary system as well as other online library suppliers for micropayments. And that&#8217;s the real answer. Just as libraries now charge users for photocopying, why shoudn&#8217;t they charge them a per-page fee for ebook ILL? </p>
<p>But until the knee-jerk reaction in library circles against charges like this disappears, ebook suppliers and publishers aren&#8217;t going to offer the option.</p>
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		<title>By: Larry Henry</title>
		<link>http://activitypress.com/2009/04/22/should-libraries-have-ebooks-im-not-sure-they-should/comment-page-1/#comment-3257</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry Henry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Apr 2009 00:28:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://activitypress.com/?p=449#comment-3257</guid>
		<description>Allison seeing that you are in the front line of this, I  give a lot of credence to your views.  How would I as a writer be reimbursed for my efforts on an ongoing basis ;  should it be more if my works are digitized making them readily  available worldwide ?  Of course my desire would be for ongoing remuneration to enjoy both fame and fortune. However,  being slightly artistic I would prefer fame and remembrance.

Larry Henry</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Allison seeing that you are in the front line of this, I  give a lot of credence to your views.  How would I as a writer be reimbursed for my efforts on an ongoing basis ;  should it be more if my works are digitized making them readily  available worldwide ?  Of course my desire would be for ongoing remuneration to enjoy both fame and fortune. However,  being slightly artistic I would prefer fame and remembrance.</p>
<p>Larry Henry</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Reynolds</title>
		<link>http://activitypress.com/2009/04/22/should-libraries-have-ebooks-im-not-sure-they-should/comment-page-1/#comment-3225</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Reynolds</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2009 02:25:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://activitypress.com/?p=449#comment-3225</guid>
		<description>&#039;Tis hard to know where to start on this one - other than reminding people of the old joke about the Professor of Logic&#039;s response to the sight of two people hanging out the window on either side of the High Street in Edinburgh - shaking their fists and shouting the odds  at each other ..
 
Looking up at the kerfuffle he turned to his companion and  said - &#039;you know - those two will never agree - they are arguing from different premises&#039;
## 

I know -very Basil Brush - but hey -  what else can I say, apart from responding to one of Martin&#039;s questions &quot; in this digital age, is there really any public good justification for making vast numbers of books available free ..&quot;

As Alison Dobbie of ACL has already pointed out  the free word  just isn&#039;t helpful or accurate. 

Libraries pay for their stock, and then lend them out to their customer/membership base. 

The latter are based on geographic local authorities - i.e. the library is a community service bought and paid for by the community rate.

How e-books can be distributed within terms that compensate the author and their agents can be managed - it just needs us to think up methods which are equitable to all sides. 

For sure this might involve some kind of DRM rights - however, I&#039;m not seeing the current methods [ Overdrive for example] as anywhere near offering a satisfactory experience for author - reader or agent or library.

But we can still figure this out. 

However, to do that we need to take a step back and acknowledge the public library os a key resource for learning - education -   community development, and preserving our local and national heritage.

It&#039;s a living breathing institution with almost 200 years of  personal and community empowerment. It&#039;s not a shop - it&#039;s a key institution of civil society which has always paid its dues.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8216;Tis hard to know where to start on this one &#8211; other than reminding people of the old joke about the Professor of Logic&#8217;s response to the sight of two people hanging out the window on either side of the High Street in Edinburgh &#8211; shaking their fists and shouting the odds  at each other ..</p>
<p>Looking up at the kerfuffle he turned to his companion and  said &#8211; &#8216;you know &#8211; those two will never agree &#8211; they are arguing from different premises&#8217;<br />
## </p>
<p>I know -very Basil Brush &#8211; but hey &#8211;  what else can I say, apart from responding to one of Martin&#8217;s questions &#8221; in this digital age, is there really any public good justification for making vast numbers of books available free ..&#8221;</p>
<p>As Alison Dobbie of ACL has already pointed out  the free word  just isn&#8217;t helpful or accurate. </p>
<p>Libraries pay for their stock, and then lend them out to their customer/membership base. </p>
<p>The latter are based on geographic local authorities &#8211; i.e. the library is a community service bought and paid for by the community rate.</p>
<p>How e-books can be distributed within terms that compensate the author and their agents can be managed &#8211; it just needs us to think up methods which are equitable to all sides. </p>
<p>For sure this might involve some kind of DRM rights &#8211; however, I&#8217;m not seeing the current methods [ Overdrive for example] as anywhere near offering a satisfactory experience for author &#8211; reader or agent or library.</p>
<p>But we can still figure this out. </p>
<p>However, to do that we need to take a step back and acknowledge the public library os a key resource for learning &#8211; education &#8211;   community development, and preserving our local and national heritage.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a living breathing institution with almost 200 years of  personal and community empowerment. It&#8217;s not a shop &#8211; it&#8217;s a key institution of civil society which has always paid its dues.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Parry</title>
		<link>http://activitypress.com/2009/04/22/should-libraries-have-ebooks-im-not-sure-they-should/comment-page-1/#comment-3222</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Parry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2009 01:18:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://activitypress.com/?p=449#comment-3222</guid>
		<description>As an after thought.

Your argument seems to be very similar to the old argument vis-à-vis libraries holding print copies of books for sale. As [public] libraries became common and popular, the retail outlets and publishers were concerned that increased access to free works would push down their potential sales. If anything the reverse was true, and libraries became the principal purchasers of expensive works, which increased their print run size. I don’t see why the electronic environment will necessarily be different.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As an after thought.</p>
<p>Your argument seems to be very similar to the old argument vis-à-vis libraries holding print copies of books for sale. As [public] libraries became common and popular, the retail outlets and publishers were concerned that increased access to free works would push down their potential sales. If anything the reverse was true, and libraries became the principal purchasers of expensive works, which increased their print run size. I don’t see why the electronic environment will necessarily be different.</p>
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		<title>By: Allison Dobbie</title>
		<link>http://activitypress.com/2009/04/22/should-libraries-have-ebooks-im-not-sure-they-should/comment-page-1/#comment-3220</link>
		<dc:creator>Allison Dobbie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2009 00:45:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://activitypress.com/?p=449#comment-3220</guid>
		<description>I am the manager of a large public library.  I think you might be missing the point here.  Libraries subscribe to and pay for e-books.  They come from the supplier with conditions, which the supplier has negotiated with the publisher. The fee includes royalties.  E-books open up the world of reading for many people, especially those who require large print or who prefer to listen to a story rather than reading the physical copy  because of poor eyesight or frailty.  As those buying ebook readers will discover,  many e-books  are not yet licenced for this part of the world and we are unable to provide access to them.  The rights and profits around ebooks are all in place, and libraries do what they can to provide equitable access for customers. 
Most if not all  of the digitisation that NZ libraries are doing is of unique material in their collections, much of it unpublished such as letters, archives  and photographs.   The point is to improve access as well as addressing preservation.  Writers use this material to create the works that give publishers their income.

In the same way that libraries have housed at public cost the hard copy back catalogue of published works so quickly out of print, to ensure public access, so libraries will store and preserve at immense public cost, the digitised memory to ensure that it too  remains available for the future.  This need to store and preserve the NZ digital memory  is a key National Library responsibility which is being addressed as part of the requirements for their new building. 

To deny libraries the right to lend e-books is to deny equity of access to the future world of information and reading.  Publishers on their own cannot meet this need.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am the manager of a large public library.  I think you might be missing the point here.  Libraries subscribe to and pay for e-books.  They come from the supplier with conditions, which the supplier has negotiated with the publisher. The fee includes royalties.  E-books open up the world of reading for many people, especially those who require large print or who prefer to listen to a story rather than reading the physical copy  because of poor eyesight or frailty.  As those buying ebook readers will discover,  many e-books  are not yet licenced for this part of the world and we are unable to provide access to them.  The rights and profits around ebooks are all in place, and libraries do what they can to provide equitable access for customers.<br />
Most if not all  of the digitisation that NZ libraries are doing is of unique material in their collections, much of it unpublished such as letters, archives  and photographs.   The point is to improve access as well as addressing preservation.  Writers use this material to create the works that give publishers their income.</p>
<p>In the same way that libraries have housed at public cost the hard copy back catalogue of published works so quickly out of print, to ensure public access, so libraries will store and preserve at immense public cost, the digitised memory to ensure that it too  remains available for the future.  This need to store and preserve the NZ digital memory  is a key National Library responsibility which is being addressed as part of the requirements for their new building. </p>
<p>To deny libraries the right to lend e-books is to deny equity of access to the future world of information and reading.  Publishers on their own cannot meet this need.</p>
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